Today we’re talking to Gregory Birch. Greg (https://www.instagram.com/gregoryabirch_/) is a sales and leadership Coach with a fascinating background.  A Tennessee native and son of military parents, Greg had an early desire to serve others. After college, Greg commissioned into the US Army as an Army officer and spent 11 years serving his country. He deployed to both Afghanistan and Iraq, led Soldiers in combat, and was twice awarded the Bronze Star Medal for his actions overseas.  When Greg talks about leadership, smart people listen.

Clinton Henry: Gregory, I'm so excited to have you on the show today. One of the things I'm excited to talk to you about is what did you learn about leadership being an Officer in the army?

Gregory Birch: Yeah, man, that's a good question. I learned I think the first and foremost is that leadership starts with you, starts with the individual. There's three levels of leadership. Three kind of, I guess, categories as you move along, as you progress. And the first level is being able to lead yourself because if you can't do the job or you can't lead yourself to be a good person, then no one's going to want to follow. And ultimately what you want to do is elevate yourself to a specific level. So if we were to rate everyone 1 to 10. If you're currently a 6 and you want to have a team of killers that are 8, 9s and 10s, you can't lead them. Because you're not an 8, 9 or 10. And they're not going to follow you. There's a quote that I learned early in the military, which was basically that leadership is all about influence. So if you cannot influence them to do something when you're there, then you're not leading them effectively. Because that's what we're doing, is we're leading people to do things that they normally wouldn't do.

Gregory Birch: If they already do them without your presence, then you're not their leader. So if it's an 8, 9 or 10 and you're a 6 or 7, they're operating beyond you. You're not their leader. So it starts with you. Then once you've done that, once you've started to increase your capabilities and your skills, what happens is naturally people become attracted to you and it takes you to that second level. The second level is where people start to follow you. It's the difference between positional power and personal power. Positional power is just like, Hey, I'm your boss, I'm your manager, this that the other and they're exercising through basically. The people will comply just because they hold a title. Whereas with personal power, they want to follow you. They see who you are and they want to be a part of that and they want to follow you. But that doesn't happen until you raise yourself to a higher level and chase your potential.

Clinton Henry: [And you said that, what's the third level? Because you said there were three levels.

Gregory Birch: The third level is basically duplicating yourself into another person. The second level is all about bringing people in and starting to train them or lead them by example, by doing the job, showing them how you do it. Then the third level is when you turn them into a leader and they start doing the same thing.

Clinton Henry: And that's how you can judge your success. It is your ability to turn people on your team into leaders. A lot of times we have leaders who don't want their people to grow or they're intimidated by potentially being surpassed by one of the people on their team. That's a restrictive mindset that I think that can hamper some people. I don't see those people succeed a lot in the long term. When you're leading in the military and now you're focused on sales post military, are there different traits of effective military leadership versus sales leadership, or is it the same?

Gregory Birch: It's really the same. And in fact, it's funny you say that because I've used sales and leadership as having the same strategies and tactics in order to be effective because both of them are influence. So with leadership, you're influencing people to buy into your ideas, your concepts, your vision. With sales, you're influencing people to buy your product, your services. It's the same exact tactics and strategies. The way that I see it and the way that I execute it, which is through influence and just being a good person. And so what I found for me in my sales career and even my leadership career was that when I put myself first and I was trying to do what I wanted to do first, I was focused on the sale. I was focused on getting commission. I was focused on breaking a sales record. I was focused on achieving some great feat to impress the general for some event or doing right. When I was all about what I wanted, what ended up happening is it never performed the way I wanted it to. But when I released that and I started putting all of my energy into helping other people be the best version of themselves, and I influenced them in a way.

A lot of people talk about influence and manipulation because they're very closely related is that influence is where I can get you to do something that I know is going to benefit you. Whereas manipulation, I was going to get you something what's only going to benefit me. It doesn't benefit you whatsoever, but the strategies amongst them are very similar. It's just the intent behind it. So when people know that you're a genuinely good person and that you do care, I believe it's almost like a vibration you put off. It's just an energy. It's very positive. They're more willing to work for you. They're more willing to work because they know they're bettering themselves in the long run. So ultimately, what this comes down to is just being a good person. If you're just an exceptionally good person, you'll happen to be also be good at sales. So happen to also be good at leadership. But it really starts with the individual, this being a really good person.

Clinton Henry: I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Gregory Birch: I was just saying that that was what I learned in the military and that's what I've executed since I've gotten out. It's helped me to be very successful.

Clinton Henry: I love the idea that the first step is working on yourself because you're building up who you're going to be. So people will want to follow you. And being that sort of leader of men is an aspiration for a lot of people. There is a mental shift from being what we would consider like a boss, changing that to being a coach and coaching up your people. And you talk a lot about habits and the power of habits. Are there any habits around coaching that you can impart to our listeners that this has been very effective for me as I'm trying to build up the people around me?

Gregory Birch: The best method that I've used that has been very helpful is using the Socratic method when I talk to people and listening more. I spend my time when I talk to any of my agents. When I started doing this in the military, I saw a drastic shift. It's very difficult to convince people of things if they don't feel it's their idea. They have to actually imagine that scenario within their head and feel like it's a right decision before they'll execute it. The best way to do that is to ask them questions that puts them in that thought process to where they can imagine it. If you try to just tell them, they won't do that. And so when I shifted from telling people what needed to happen to asking better questions about their performance, what they wanted to achieve, how they were going to achieve it, what are they doing currently in order to achieve it, what are they lacking in their actions that they could do better? I'm asking them. They're telling me. And what's going to happen is that they will eventually come up with the answers the more questions I ask.

And it'll come out with it and then I can tie it back because it's building up their emotion. And human beings, we make all of our decisions emotion based. All of our decisions come from our limbic brain, our animal brain. And we back it up with our neocortex, which basically is our ability to process information, to speak, to analyze data, etc. But it doesn't have an ability to make decisions. Only our neocortex does, which handles all of our emotions. If you can get them to feel it first. And then back it up with data that's after you've already asked the questions, you've got them to answer. That means once they ask a question, what happens is they think about it and they're like, Oh, well, you know. And they start to imagine it and they imagine that scenario and then they feel it. What you want to do is ask questions that put them to a specific point almost in the future. That's kind of planned by you and have them imagine it so that they can feel that emotion. And then once they do, then once you've done that, they answer and then you back it up with the data that supports that. How you want to help and how you can support.

So when you do that and this is the same with sales. This is the exact same way that I sell, is I ask a lot of questions of the client understanding, hey, where are you at? Where do you want to be? What's the gap? How would it feel to cross that gap? How would it feel to have this perfect vision of the future? And then I show my product or service as the bridge for that gap. Hey, here's how we get there. I execute in such a way where it's a no brainer. I do the same thing with leadership. I have them tell me. And when you do that, they're more willing to execute the plan because it's their plan. Because they're the ones that answer those questions. They're the ones that came up with it. You're just supporting their feelings, their thoughts, what they came up with.

Clinton Henry: It's fascinating because it's like you're shifting from a problem solver mindset. And like I'm going to help you solve your problems to an empowering mindset where I'm going to empower you to solve your own problems by just asking you and prompting you questions and then allowing you to arrive at the appropriate decision.

Gregory Birch: Absolutely. So when I was deployed in Iraq, I had this fantastic major. His name is Major Sean Kramer, and he was the battalion, and I was a company XO at the time. Every single time I had a problem and I was hitting a wall with some issue, I would go to him and say, Sir, I got this issue, I need help. I would go run through everything. He would just listen and he'd be like. Hey, Greg, have you tried this? And he would just ask a question and it wouldn't be the answer, but it would lead me down the path to find the answer. I'd be like, No, I didn't try that. He was like, Go try that and dig around a little bit. See what you come up with and let me know how that goes. He wouldn't give me the answer, but he gave me just enough that would put me on the path. I always remembered that because I really respected him and it taught me a lot. It taught me a hell of a lot. And so I've used that method ever since. I learned that. That was back in 2009 when I was a young captain. I used that method ever since where soldiers would come up to me and ask a question or they'd have problems. I'm like, Well, have you tried this? What about this? What are your thoughts on doing this? And just asking those questions to get them to think through the problem themselves.

Clinton Henry: That's fascinating. So one of the things that leaders do is we have to have difficult conversations at times with our team. Do you have an approach for that? I mean, some people skirt around it. Some guys love to touch the nerve. How do you deal with having difficult conversations with people you're leading?

Gregory Birch: I'm going to start with the story. I learned this when I was a cadet, and it served me. This is back in 2005. This is about in 2005. So it's almost been two decades, almost been 20 years. In 2005, I was a senior in college. I was an ROTC graduate coming out of Austin Peay State University. I got a scholarship. Now at Austin Peay, we're at Clarksville, Tennessee. It's right by Fort Campbell. There's a huge population of prior military students that [win] in the military deployed or whatever were enlisted, decided to go what's called green to gold, where they go to become an officer from enlisted. My graduating class was like 26 people that commissioned and out of 26, 3 of us came from high school. 23 of us were all prior enlisted. I was one of the high school kids. I did not do prior enlistment.

So the good thing about it was that I had a lot of people that had experience that were teaching me things about what they learned as enlisted soldiers. The bad thing about it was that it's kind of nerve wracking because as a senior and we're about to graduate, we're about to get our commission. And the program what they do is they have all the seniors run the entire ROTC program and the cadre or the teachers. We call them cadre. The cadre is they're watching and they're just like, well, what do you think? What do you want to do? You're about to become a lieutenant Cadet Birch, What do you want to do? And it's just kind of like to challenge us.

Gregory Birch: I had this event where I was running a land navigation event. So I'm [], land navigation, and I'm giving a brief to all the juniors that are all about to be tested to go into their senior year. I'm going over all the operations order. There is this one junior, he was a clown like a class clown style kind of guy. But he was very efficient. He knew his thing. He was great at PT. He was very experienced. He had hit E-7, which is a sergeant first class and he had only done 10 years. Then he got out and he was transitioning to become an officer. He didn't like little lessons. I think he was like seven years. He got it like E-7. He was very exceptional. He starts clowning on me while I'm giving this operations order. Now I was a really timid cadet, but I got upset. I'm like, I'm the one running this event. And so I had an option at that point. I could go correct this guy who is much older than me. He's like six, seven years older than me, and he's got seven, eight years combat experience, E-7. And I'm just a little cadet. I'm from high school, starting to college.

Gregory Birch: And so I'm like, Well, what do I do? I went to my cadre and they were like, Well, I don't know. What are you going to do? What are you supposed to do? But I was like, Well, I guess I got to write a counseling statement. So I had these little counseling statements, little papers that were like these yellow pieces of paper. I don't know how I came up with it. It was like a stroke of genius at the time. But I wrote up. I was trying to lighten the blow because I didn't want to come off where he would be like, Oh, whatever, kind of like make fun of me more. So what I did and what I call it is the shit sandwich technique. As I started off by talking about everything that he's done, that's been awesome. I was like, Hey man, you're exceptional. You do great at it. You're acing all your tests. Every single event, you're at the top of the pack. You're going to do great when you go to Leadership development assessment course this summer. However, it is disrespectful for you to do this. Do what you did to any of the seniors when we're running the program. Now, I understand that you've been deployed. I understand that you've done a lot of work and you have more experience than me. But you have not been to leadership development assessment course and I have. I made it through in the top 10% of all the cadets in the nation, you have not. This is not the kind of behavior that's going to get you top marks at LDAC. I want you to get top marks at LDAC. I know you have the potential to get top marks at LDAC. So let's decide to take the higher route and chase your potential and be better. And he was like, all right, roger that, sir. He saluted me. He's starting his counseling. Never had a problem with him again. And the cadre members were like, That was really good. You did a really good job on that. And I was like, I don't know where that came out from. I just was thinking about it. I was like, I'm going to start with something good. I'm going to tell him what it is in the middle, he needs a fix. And with something like a potentially high future. And ever since then, I've always used that technique and it's never failed me.

Clinton Henry: That's a great answer. The sandwich you talked about is they refer to it in psychology as the positivity sandwich. And it's literally positive corrective action positive. And so that approach that you've figured out on your own like some genius kid or like some kid in the middle of India who just writes all algebra out without ever talking to anybody is awesome. It just shows that you have this innate leadership ability of okay, I want him to read this message. I want it to get through. What would work on me? This would be effective. And then to do that all at the drop of a hat. I mean, first off, it shows why you were qualified to be where you were and explains your entire career and Bronze Stars and everything else. But yeah, that's an amazingly intuitive thing for effectively a high school senior just to pull out. That's really cool story, man.

Gregory Birch: I appreciate it.

Clinton Henry: That's great. In your mind, are there things that we could be doing every day? And you talk a lot about habits as far as like working out and stuff like that. And you're very passionate about that. For our leaders who want to be more regimented and how they approach their lives, because I think that bleeds over into leadership. And we talked a little bit about habits earlier, but what's sort of your advice to someone looking to, let's say they're an 8 or 9, but they want to be a ten. Who are some 10s that they can follow or some 10 level ideas that can get them to the next level?

Gregory Birch: In terms of habits, I would be reading every single day. That's one of the things non-negotiable that's changed my life. It's changed my leadership. It's changed my sales ability. That's changed every area of life. It helps you with conceptualization skills. It helps you with problem solving. It helps you with your ability even helps with your imagination as well and your creativity. So reading and not listening to an audio book, but actually reading physically reading and I do active reading. So as I read, I also take notes and I write out things that I'm taking away, even if it's like one nugget every day. So I have a minimum amount that I read every day. A minimum, I'm going to read 20 pages a day. But sometimes I read like 40. It doesn't take very long. The more you read, the better you get. I would also recommend writing every day. So communication is probably the most important skill that anyone can have in terms of influence, because both verbal and written communication is how you're going to be able to influence people. And that's what sales and leadership is all about. So if you can't effectively write, you're not going to be able to effectively influence people through writing.

Gregory Birch: And reading is going to help with your vernacular as well and your vocabulary so that you can influence people verbally whenever you're speaking with them. So those are the two biggest skills, I think, that are lost on people. And a lot of people are like, Oh yeah, I read, but it's like, do you read every single day? Every single day and write every day? That's the difference. And there's something magical that happens when you're consistent with it and you do it day in and day out for months, years. You start to expand your mind. Some of the leaders that I follow, it depends on what their industry is or what they're really looking for, but I'm a huge Simon Sinek fan. I love Simon Sinek. I love his concepts, his ideas. He's like my spirit animal. Then I follow people like Ed Mylett, Andy Frisella. But there are so many, John Maxwell. John Maxwell has got a lot of great leadership books and they're very simple. Usually they're pretty short to read. You can get a lot of nuggets that you can take away in order to apply to your business or your life really. [overlap]

Clinton Henry: I think you left one off. I think we should all be following you. And your Instagram will definitely be in the show notes. I think I learned a ton today dude. This was this was awesome. I really want to thank you for coming on the show. I know our listeners learned a lot, so looking forward to chatting with you again, but thanks for the time. Really appreciate it.

Gregory Birch: Hey, it's my pleasure. For those of you listening, make sure you do Clinton a favor and you just share this content because he's putting out great content. I'm sure he's doing it for free. And so the best thing that you can do is if you get any value from any of his shows, is that you share it with somebody else that can also get value from it. Because it helps his audience grow. It helps his show grow, and it just overall spreads more of the message.

Clinton Henry: Couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks, Greg. Appreciate it, man.