In the latest episode of "Innovators Unleashed," I had the pleasure of speaking with Victoria Pelletier, a seasoned corporate leader whose career trajectory defied her initial plans. Victoria's journey from banking to a C-suite role in professional services exemplifies the dynamic nature of effective leadership and personal branding.

Victoria shared her transition from aspiring lawyer to a young executive in the banking sector, and eventually to a prominent role in business process outsourcing. This journey highlighted the importance of embracing unexpected opportunities and the pivotal role of personal branding in professional advancement.

Our conversation delved into the intricacies of personal branding. Victoria emphasized four essential elements: subject matter expertise, storytelling, differentiation, and legacy. She advocated for authenticity in leadership, revealing how she reshaped her brand from the 'Iron Maiden' persona to a leader more reflective of her true self.

The discussion then shifted to relationship-based selling and its significance in the B2B world. Victoria stressed the importance of building authentic, trust-based relationships with clients and understanding their unique needs.

A significant portion of our discussion was dedicated to fostering diversity, equity, and inclusion in organizations. Victoria highlighted the need for strategic intentionality and creating a workplace where every individual feels valued and included.

Finally, we explored the evolving landscape of the workforce, emphasizing the changing needs and values of different generations. Victoria underscored the importance of aligning company values with those of employees, particularly in attracting and retaining younger generations.

Victoria Pelletier's insights are a testament to the power of adaptive leadership and the critical role personal branding plays in navigating the corporate world.

Clinton Henry: So Victoria, I'm so excited that you're here today. Before we get into your perspective on personal brand, can you talk a little bit about your corporate leadership, executive journey and how that shaped your view on how to be an effective leader?

Victoria Pelletier: Yeah, for sure. What I will tell your listeners is that the path I'm on now isn't the one that I thought I was going to be on in that. From childhood, I thought I was going to be a lawyer. I think my mom had me watch probably too much LA law back in the 80s. And so that was the plan. However, I worked at a bank through college and got promoted through the ranks quite quickly while I was still in college, and then they offered me a relocation across the country. Senior leadership role already at like the age of 20. So I said, why not? I'll take off a year before I go to law school. And what I realized is how much I loved the corporate world, just the dynamics. There was a lot of transformation work at that point, the very, very early days. They wouldn't have called it digital banking, but that excited me and leading people. So what I thought was going to be one year, I just kept off before I went to law school. I just kept deferring and then my career grew from then and after, I don't know, maybe six years or so. I worked in the banking world. I got recruited to be the chief operating officer for a large private BPO companies so business process outsourcing. And although it was a massive stretch role for me at like 24 years old, a new mother at that. It was because I had contact center experience, which is I'd been leading large contact center operations in banking, and they had banking clients. So big stretch role that I leaned into. And then ever since then, I've stayed in the world of B2B professional services at a C-suite or equivalent within some of the large companies I work for.

Clinton Henry: Gotcha. So it sounds to me you established your personal brand very early. Can you talk a little bit about key elements of why a personal brand is important and how for somebody maybe at like an earlier stage of career, how they should get started with that?

Victoria Pelletier: Yeah, I didn't have the vernacular of saying personal brand 20 something years ago when I was doing it. That probably came maybe 15 years ago now. But part of the reason I did it was when I made that shift from this B2C environment of being in banking to all of a sudden being in a B2B environment where I was leading sales and client management teams, and many of the ways we got new business was through networking and conferences, but also through requests for proposals, RFPs that would fall on our desk. And I needed to find a way for us to differentiate ourselves, particularly when we hadn't a lot of established relationships with buyers. And that's a whole other topic around the relationships we build. And so what I realized is people do business with people they like and trust and therefore want to do business with. How were they going to get to like, know or trust us. And so it needed to be more than just the race to the bottom line from a price perspective. How were we standing out in terms of the facets of what we were going to deliver, how we were going to deliver? And you know what stuff goes wrong. So when that happens, how do you recover? And so there became very much a focus on the people that they were buying and buying from and being engaged with on an ongoing basis. And so what I needed to do was establish what I now say are four elements of brand.

And most people think it's just this first one, which is what is my subject matter expertise. What did I go to school for? What's the industry I've been working at, or the company or job title I hold? That's kind of foundational, but that doesn't make you stand out at all. What I realized is it needed to be an element of storytelling and who you are as a person. What are your likes, your interests, your values and that that builds that bridge or connection with people as well. Then the next part is what makes you different. So there's lots of people in my business that have lots of experience as I have or members of my team have, but why would they choose to buy from and deal with me? And it's not just selling, it's hiring as well. So why would they choose to hire me? So I also want to know what makes you different. So for example, for me, one of the things that I'm known for as a differentiator is being radically candid. I am going to give you the direct and honest feedback from a place of care and compassion, because I want to progress and move us forward.

I've literally told clients and challenging them on something. Last year, one in particular, I remember saying to the CEO of this company, I don't think you hired me or the team to tell you what you want to hear, as I gave him some very direct feedback on a reorganization we were supporting them with. So that's the unique value proposition or differentiator. And the last piece in this is what do you want to be known for? Think about legacy or impact. And yes, that's a lot easier when you're a little bit further ahead in your career. What I would tell your audience as well is that you can pivot and change over time. And me showing up as a 24 year old executive who was in a stretch role, I showed up in a very different way and I was known as the Iron Maiden at one point, all business, all the time. And I'm like, that's actually not who I am as a human. So I actually had to make a conscious effort to be to change the perceptions, to change my brand in the way I showed up to really who I was as a person. And that was a whole bunch of not only my brand, but how I was as a leader. To just say that really quickly. So it's subject matter expertise, your storytelling, your experience, your values, passion, interests, what makes you different and then legacy or impact. What do you want to be known for?

Clinton Henry: So when you work with people, where do you think they most often fall short within those four? Or is it usually a mix and match?

Victoria Pelletier: I think it depends on, I won't say age and stage, but I will tell you the age part I think as I've matured, I'm much more comfortable with the parts I see people are afraid to do earlier in their career. And that is that personal element, that storytelling. Some people are afraid to tell their personal story, their why to quote from Simon Sinek like yeah, why is what, what's my drive and why am I here? What do I care about? I'm extremely values driven and about doing the right thing and I'm going to tell people why and where does that come from? So I find people are afraid to show the personal side because I think that just needs to be super professional. But again, we connect with people on that level. So it's figuring out what that right and optimal mix is. And the other one is what do you want to be known for. Again that that changes over time. I just think I was so focused earlier in my career on performing, and I wanted to be known to be like excellent at delivering the work, sales, revenue, profit for the companies I worked for. But that's not going to be on my tombstone. That's not what I want to be known for, right? Who I am, how I showed up, the fact that I'm deeply committed to diversity, equity, inclusion, social justice, and making great workplaces and communities and hopefully leaving this world a better place than when I came into it. That's what I want to be known for, and not everyone can articulate that now. So again just depending on how clear that is in the minds of people, that's where it falls short in terms of their brand.

Clinton Henry: Interesting. Now, you did touch on something I wanted to go back to. And that was when you're dealing with an [] case, right? It's not about the relationship. It's about answering 35 questions in an Excel spreadsheet, but can you talk a little bit about what relationship selling is, what are your views on that? I know from your experience, you must have a significant amount of insights on how to approach something like that and probably can define it for our listeners who haven't heard about it before.

Victoria Pelletier:  Yeah, I mean it's different again in much more of a direct to consumer world where people are buying off of Amazon or their individual websites or because stuff's coming up on their social feed. Then when we talk about relationship based selling, very, very much and well, I'll say very much, it's B2B. But the reality is we buy from influencers even in the B2C environment still because we like and trust these influencers and therefore we buy. But we need think about going back to what I said around brand. People do business with people they like, trust and want to do business with. So when I actually have made decisions around whether to respond to an RFP or not, go through this analysis of how much, particularly in some of the companies I've worked at or probably over the last decade, where sometimes these really, really large RFPs, we could spend millions of dollars just going through the exercise. And so I'll make a decision over whether we're actually going to respond or not, in large part based upon who do we have relationships with.

Clinton Henry: Yeah.

Victoria Pelletier: And I think that's critically important. There's a a book that was put out by CEB and there's two of them. One is the challenger sale, one is the challenger customer. The challenger sale is the first one and it just talks about the different buying types and how to sell into those. But the next one recognizes that in every again B2B world, I think it's changed. They said 5.3 decision makers for every one of these purchases. That was several years ago. I'd argue it's gone up to something like 7 or 8. And so understanding who really is your buyer here. Yes, procurement's going to get involved. Finance wants to understand what's important to them. And so for me, building that authentic and trusted relationship, yes, there's an intention to sell or to hire or whatever it is, but the why for these individuals. So I build relationships with my clients, asking them things like how success measured in your organization? And for this particular engagement, maybe you're looking to outsource some work, like what really matters? And then that understanding is what allows the team and I to go away and craft something that's deeply connected to what is meaningful for them. And you need to do that with those multitude of different buyers to ensure that you've got relationships with them. You're honing in on the things that are meaningful and impactful to them and making them look good, quite frankly. And so it's a challenge. I've spent probably the last 15 years working for fortune 100 companies, publicly traded. And [unclear] results are always important. And so each of those companies tends to want to show up with a proverbial tool kit of like, here's the things I can sell you. I'd rather approach it from what are the challenges we're trying to solve.

Clinton Henry:  Yeah, that's a great approach. You talked about wanting to focus people that like trust and want to do business with you. And one of the things that I think has become more important than ever is having a diverse, equitable, inclusive organization. And if you don't have those, if you don't take those boxes, I think a lot of customers don't want to, especially in a B2B world, don't want to work with you. So can you talk a little bit about, I know you're very passionate about this in your mind, how do you create an environment that is diverse, equitable and inclusive within an organization?

Victoria Pelletier: It comes from all levels of the organization. Although I think it's critically important top down for sure. And look at the web page for companies who are their leaders. Hopefully they've got it listed on their website. Who are the leaders, who's on their board if they're a board, and so do the faces that show up on those pages, do they look like the community you live in, let alone do they even look like you? And it needs to start from there to ensure that there's diversity from a senior leadership perspective. And I use a phrase called strategic intentionality. In that, we are far, far from where we should be in terms of diverse, inclusive cultures. You look at the fortune 500. At the beginning of this year, there was a little over 10% female CEOs and only a handful of black CEOs in their venture capital funding. Only 4% go to women, less than 1% of black founders. So it's the needle is very, very far from where it needs to be. So being strategic and intentional over taking stock of where are we today in terms of the various elements of diversity and gender is only one of those and drawing a line in the sand in terms of where do we want to get to and over what time frame, and then being really intentional about where are we going to go? And not only attract employees, how do you retain them? So that's where it becomes much more of a leadership conversation.

Are we creating a safe place for people feel like they can show up as their authentic selves, talk about their lived experience, and they feel like they belong? So there's no silver bullet in this. There's like multi pronged approach in terms of how we do it. And I would say, when I say top and bottom, I want our new entrance, new hires into the organization to have a voice and recognize that as your power. And so challenge and bring people in and be a part of the employee resource groups and share more of your experience. And there's so much richness that comes with that.

Clinton Henry: Interesting. So let's talk about the workforce of the future and what you see, because I think as as someone that leads a bunch of teams and people I've talked to, I think managing people in this younger generation is very different than managing people from my generation or older than me. And do you have a perspective on the workforce of the future? Are you positive on it? What are you seeing as it relates to that?

Victoria Pelletier: Yeah, it's changed dramatically. And you're right there. Different generations are focused on different things within the organization. So my generation, I'm a Gen Xer. And the boomers that came before me, looked at job security. They looked at pay and elements like that where an investment in me and that meant one thing. Where I look at my son, who's a Gen Zer, who's fresh out of college, that generation, it isn't about loyalty. I mean, the average, we're seeing people move around every 2 to 3 years. But what will keep them there? We know there's no real job security now. It's their personal development and investment in their growth. That's what they see as some security. So matching strategy of the business with the skills that are required and investing in the growth and development of those skills. So that's one thing. The other is the type of leaders we want to work for. And also purpose and impact and the why we work so really shift that radically for multi generations. But for people to be really connected to the work that they do, what impact does it have in the organization as a whole. And that's where it becomes important for a leader to help translate that. If you're a new entrant into the company, one of the lower levels, like understand how your work impacts others.

And so as a leader we need to help with that. I only want to work for companies that are aligned. I said I'm very values driven. I want to work for that. So we're finding more and more people want to work for purpose led organizations that connect with their own values and working for leaders who operate in a very different way. So my old Iron Maiden ways of showing up 20 something years ago does not work today. We want to work for someone who's human heart centered, who's going to be vulnerable with you so you can build trust so that there's a sense of safety again, and that my leaders got my back. I think there's so much focus on technology and AI, particularly with the likes of generative AI. And so, yes, the type of work we do is going to shift and continue to evolve with technology. But what won't is the why we're doing it and the who in which we're working for and with within these companies. So that's the mind shift that needs to change. And so as I talk to senior executives, I get much more of a focus on building that engagement within the workforce. And as a leader, how do we build that future generation of leaders as well?

Clinton Henry: When you assess an organization at the senior level, can you quickly determine oh, these people get it or don't? And what are you looking for is like a fast metric. Is is it churn? Is it turnover within the organization? Is it mentality? Is it board makeup? How are you assessing organizations?

Victoria Pelletier: Many ways. Although one of the easiest ways is one that you mentioned, which is retention or within your organization, what is the involuntary attrition within the organization. That's a great way to measure it. That clearly says there is something wrong, and it can be a multitude of reasons. It can be pay. They just haven't adjusted for that. But a lot of it actually has to do with leadership and culture and from there it's assessing things like incentive models. That's a huge area that I think many companies aren't investing more time in. The reality is people act and behave in the way in which they're compensated. Seeing a lot of the incentive bonus programs can drive certain behavior. So going back to relationship based selling and the short term nature of things and not always doing the right thing because we're focused on chasing that quarter to quarter results. That's one thing. Also, it can be easy things like what's the stance for people around? What I refer to as those toxic high performers, are you prepared to accept them to remain in the organization when they've got an HR file that's like a mile long because of how poor they are? Like, you either live by the values and the stated vision mission you have around the culture you desire or you don't, and so there's ways to measure it again with employee engagement results around those churn rates. But then ultimately start to dive down and you can just ask some of these simple questions around how do you handle this situation. And that's incredibly telling.

Clinton Henry: Wow. Yeah, I haven't heard the phrase toxic high performer. And boy oh boy, is that really []? That's a great one question IQ test for a leader like how do you handle these. Totally that makes perfect sense. Yeah. The other point you made that I was really a fan of was the fact that we all are to some extent coin operated. And so you can structure incentives and compensation to drive mission but also align the corporate mission with purpose. If you're looking at the book Drive by Daniel Pink about autonomy mastery purpose like my values are aligned to my organization's value, which is also aligned to my compensation. It's a nice synergy to go after.

Victoria Pelletier: Yeah. Agree. And the other one, I like that book, the other one as well for me is Simon Sinek's The Infinite Game. We don't win at life. We don't win at business. Yes, you can win contracts. Yes, you can be hired and get promoted. But again, if you're playing the long game, you play it very differently.

Clinton Henry: Yeah. Totally. Great note to end on. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. This was very insightful.

Victoria Pelletier: Thanks for having me.